Nearly a year ago, I wrote an article about an episode of the Naked, Nudists, and Naturists podcast. It was never published, through no one’s fault but my own.
I offered it to Planet Nude, who readily agreed to publish it, but they asked for some minor, entirely appropriate changes, which I immediately agreed to make. However, life, as is its wont, got in the way. I started working on the requested changes, and didn’t finish; soon it seemed too late to publish the article. I let it go.
I stress that the fault for not publishing the article was mine and mine alone. (In fact another venue offer
However, the issue was raised recently on BlueSky by the wonderful artist Reinder Dijkhuis and astute commenters Mister Bionic and Gerardo Cisneros. Why? Because the podcast has recently been featured—endorsed, perhaps—by Planet Nude.
Nudist writer Dustin Cox recently made the case that this is a case of redemption of NNN hosts Frank Stone and Lisa Monroe. He claims that the podcast has made “conscious, consistent strides toward growth.” However, the podcast has never responded to the criticism, or apologized or otherwise addressed the remarks.
Redemption starts by openly acknowledging the wrong done. To my knowledge, that has never happened; I would prefer that it did.
But in the meantime, the article I wrote is below.
Earlier this year, an episode of the Naked, Nudists, and Naturists podcast - the official podcast of AANR - included a reading of an email from an unnamed correspondent talking about body positivity. This is a subject that has always been a little concerning for me, as many of the positions that people take on this subject seem directly opposed to naturist values. I was interested to hear the discussion.
The email, as read by the hosts, started by claiming “enthusiastic support” for body positivity. But the rest of the email, and the ensuing discussion by the hosts, went in a far different direction.
The Naked, Nudists, and Naturists podcast (NNN from here on), with hosts Frank Stone and Lisa Munroe, has been releasing hour-long weekly episodes since the middle of 2023. They have interviewed a wide range of guests, all with a naturist connection of some kind. The hosts repeatedly extol the virtues of nudism in every show, often with their catchphrase “enjoying being naked for all the right reasons”. In 2024, AANR adopted NNN as the official podcast of the organization.
But in Episode 92 of their podcast, I discovered that their feelings about body positivity—that naturism, as a philosophy, requires radical acceptance—were completely opposite to mine.
Around the 21:20 mark of the podcast, in response to the correspondence about body positivity, the hosts revealed a view of bodily acceptance that is problematic, and far too prevalent, in nudist spaces. If naturists see body positivity and acceptance as fundamental to a shared naturist ethic, then we must ask some important questions of the podcast and its approach to nudism.
The listener’s email was prompted by its unnamed author “thinking about body positivity”. In response to a social media post about body positivity, he commented:
Body positivity is a good thing if not taken to the extreme. Our perfection-obsessed culture driven by images of photoshopped supermodels has driven a generation to hate their bodies, leading to unnecessary unhealthy dieting and body modification, and conditions such as anorexia, bulimia, depression, and suicide. Learning to love the skin you’re in can help develop a better sense of wellbeing. There are some people who take it to an unhealthy extreme, and I don’t see that as true body positivity. Self love requires self care.
The hosts appeared to be in complete agreement with the email. Immediately Frank referenced “that personality, I can’t even call her a star or a singer, whatever she is, Lizzo”—a surprising way to describe a musical superstar. Frank goes on, with Lisa’s agreement:
You know, very overweight by anybody’s judgement. And people are saying, “You go, girl. You’re so positive and love the—” what—no. You shouldn’t be doing that. Because that is unhealthy. That’s no longer, as he mentioned, under the banner of “body positivity.”
The hosts continue to discuss how body positivity should not be taken to an extreme. Body positivity “is just accepting who you are, whipping the clothes off, get out there and enjoy life”, but it is “not being unhealthy”.
They think of two other imagined examples beyond Lizzo who should not be positive about their bodies. One, Frank describes, is someone “five hundred pounds overweight”. Frank later imagines the mindset of someone who should not be body positive: “I am grotesquely overweight, I smoke ten packs of cigarettes a day, I have a couple of cases of beer every day, man, am I feeling good about myself.” Lisa also adds that having self-esteem is important, but it doesn’t mean that someone should “gorge on six pecan pies tonight”.
The segment ends with the final lines of the email, which read:
And that is while it is important not to judge ourselves or others based on external things, such as appearance, it is also important to nurture and care for ourselves by promoting better health.
What do the hosts and their correspondent mean, then, by “body positivity”? Some definitions are thrown around, but they are immediately undermined by their counterexamples. You should love your body, but not if you are too fat. You should have self-esteem, but not if you are too fat.
The concern is ostensibly health; however, being overweight is their primary problem. Smoking and drinking are mentioned, but only in combination with weight. No other unhealthy practices are mentioned, such as drug use or lack of exercise. Weight is a problem, and we must not be body positive if we are overweight (like Lizzo), five hundred pounds overweight, or grotesquely overweight.
Some of this harkens back to the original concept of nudism as a means of being more healthy. Early nudist clubs promoted exercise, vegetarianism, and abstinence from tobacco and alcohol. Indeed, in the early decades of nudism it was often characterized as a “health craze”. That fell off in the middle of the twentieth century and is no longer a major part of the nudist idea.
What is not clear, despite the hosts’ discussion, is where the limit for body positivity sits. All of the examples were extreme, other than Lizzo: “body positivity” is a problem because it is “unhealthy”.
Who is to judge others’ health? What does “health” even mean? Frank and Lisa never said.
Let’s state, right up front, that this isn’t about Lizzo.
Whether a person is a fan of Lizzo or not, reducing a classically-trained musician and superstar to her body size seems unfair to say the least. Frank gave no reason for the dismissive description of her—“that personality, I can’t even call her a star or a singer, whatever she is.” What prejudices might have brought her so immediately to mind?
But the hosts made it clear that fat people should not feel positive about themselves. Unhealthy people are vaguely and generally exempted from body positivity as well. But fat people definitely need not apply.
Although the hosts did not state it, there’s a clear feeling underlying the discussion. If we can see your ill health—that is, if they decide you’re too fat—then you should not be positive about your body.
Judging people by how they look: is that really something these naturists are saying—on AANR’s official podcast, no less?
And the word “judging” points to another problem. Who has a right to judge other bodies? Who is qualified to say who is fit and who is not? And what do we do when those judges determine someone is too fat - can we tolerate them in a nudist society?
None of this fits in with a naturist philosophy. And to express these opinions in an official AANR podcast is troubling indeed.
I don’t pretend to speak for all naturists. But as a naturist, have have a very clear opinion on this subject.
What Frank and Lisa said was not just nonsense. It was damaging to naturism as a philosophy and as a community. Naturists deserve an apology for this outrageous exchange, and AANR must consider carefully whether this podcast should continue to represent them.
As naturists, we are committed to seeing beyond the physical body that a person inhabits. We are proud of saying that everyone qualifies to be a naturist. Making people feel judged—even if they are only questioning whether they should feel judged—is the opposite of what we promote as naturists.
Radical acceptance—the idea that everyone who shares our naturist values should be accepted, no matter who they are—is the only logical place for us to land.
We naturists shed our clothes as an outward symbol of our philosophy: that our physical selves are less important than who we are inside. If we are truly to accept each other as we are, then we should be willing to accept what we all look like under our clothes.
